Workaround with Multi/Program/Sequence/Patch

last question for today :smiley:
then I go back making music

Of course I know what to use each mode for but I don’t quite understand the relationship and workaround among each other, yet.

1. Do I get out of Multimode when switching to Program, or am I actually ALWAYS in Multimode and just change a Program for the Multimode?
2. when I create a Multi, store it. Afterwards change an involved Program and store it to the same position, same name, will the Multi then use the altered Program? - what I mean: is the old sound of the Multi lost then or do the values of a Program get stored within a Multi as well?
(with my Waldorf Q, the old sound would be gone, with my Novation KS, the Multi stores the parameters/changes of a Program - the sound would not be lost)

3.Then, when I set up a Multi, where do I see the used Program name and position afterwards (some days or months later)?
I would have assumed that when switching from Multi to Program, I see the Name/Position of the used Program, being able to start from there to search for alternative Programs for my Multi? or just see the name of the used program.
The same for Sequence.

Then, I’m a little bit confused with the Patches. Shouldn’t they be mirrored with the Programs (but of course without Arp/Seq)?
This way, one could keep the Arp/Seq settings and be able to change the “instrument”

  • one could try the same sequence with another sound (instrument/patch)
    But all the patches are empty.
    Do I just have to store the Programs manually to Patches? Didn’t you do mirroring because of the possibility of copies of the same patch?

The same question as above for sequences: when I change a sequence and store it. If it was used in a program before - will the sequence in the program be changed then as well?

I think, my questions might lead to the wish for the COMB mode from Shruthi;-) (at least as there are so many banks in Ambika, I think it would be completely ok?)
Don’t want to get lost in all the banks and programs/sequences and damage something (existing program or multi) by accident because of resaving

In short: Ambika does not work like other synths - because I have always found other synths confusing on this topic, and shot myself in the foot hundreds of times with other synths by saving a multi for a track, and later found out I could not reuse it because it made reference to a program that I had overwritten…

To answer your questions:

  1. I don’t know what you call multimode. There’s no multimode on Ambika. There are 6 parts and you can edit them, save what they contain, load stuff in them. All the time.
  1. When you save a “multi”, you save the whole content of the synth to the SD card, in a permanent and inalterable way. It does not save references to program. You can take the multi file to another SD card and it’ll sound exactly the same.
  1. A multi stores the settings of the 6 parts, it does not store references to other presets. That’s why you can’t see them. Maybe the word processor analogy would help… You open a word processor and copy-paste text from several documents inside it. Then you save the resulting document. When you open it again you won’t be able to know where the text comes from, and if the original documents have changed, been renamed, or even deleted, it won’t be mirrored in your document. That’s how it works on Ambika.

> The same question as above for sequences: when I change a sequence and store it. If it was used in a program before – will the sequence in the program be changed then as well?

No. A program does not store references, it stores the actual data just as it was the moment you saved the program.

> Don’t want to get lost in all the banks and programs/sequences and damage something (existing program or multi) by accident because of resaving

It won’t happen because the full data gets saved/loaded. Store individual sounds with their sequences as programs and whole songs/setups as multi and everything will be fine :slight_smile:

Aha! then I mixed up Multi with "Multimode"
Your “Multi” is great!
I begin to understand, now much makes more sense to me.

and what did you create the patches for? as I just can turn off the sequencer or arp of a Program, as well as be able to change a sequence for the program, why do I need Patches then?
to change a sound within a Multi without losing the sequence? wouldn’t it make sense then if the Programs and Patches got mirrored? (otherwise manual store of all programs to patches)
or am I still misunderstanding something?

thanks for the lots of patience, Olivier!
I appreciate it a lot
hope, I don’t write too much bullshit :smiley:

> and what did you create the patches for?

Some people used to the Shruthi (which does not save arp/sequencer data) might prefer this. It would make sense indeed to provide a copy of the existing sound bank (programs) as patches…

yes, really:-)
then it makes a lot of sense
fast switching sounds without changing sequencer settings

Sorry for hiking this thread, but i still don’t get it (brand new owner of an Ambika):

Let’s say i start with an existing program (eg. A000 JUNON). I edit the Lfos, i edit the parts as i want to play 6-note chords and i want to have the BPM Setting to BPM: Ext.

Can i save this program as a multi ? If so, how ? Because, if i save it as a new program my parts and bpm settings will be lost. I don`t want to change this everytime when i switch on the Ambika.

Can somebody help me on this pls ?

Thanks
Markus

> Can i save this program as a multi ? If so, how ?

Save a multi instead of a program. This will save the entire configuration of the synth.

But it seems to me that you want to do something different… For example, do you know that you can save the voice configuration (number of voices, MIDI channel) that is loaded every time the synth starts? Make the settings you want and select the “>ini” command in the load/save page.

Hi Olivier, thanks for your quick answer and thanks very much for this incredible sounding synth.

Im quite embarrased, but it’s still not clear to me.

So you say i can save for example a setup so that everytime i switch on the Ambika alle 6 voices are assigned to Part 1.

But what do i do when i play live and the next song starts and i need the next program and i need now a program with Part 1 using 3 voices for eg. Chords, Part 2 using 1 voice for a bassline. As far as i understood i can’t save the voice allocation and midisetup within a program.

What is the best way to work with the Ambika live ?

Also another thing, what is the sense of a patch in Ambika ? In which case it does make sense to use it ?

I think the reason why i don’t understand the structure is the terminology used with the Ambika. To me a part in the Ambika is what normally is called a “sound” with all the other synths (1 or 2 oscs, filter, lfo, vca etc.). In any other synth i take the sound and store it. In Ambika no, there is no saving a sound (part), there is Multi, Programm, Sequence, Patch.

> But what do i do when i play live and the next song starts and i need the next program and i need now a program with Part 1 using 3 voices for eg. Chords, Part 2 using 1 voice for a bassline. As far as i understood i can’t save the voice allocation and midisetup within a program.

This is what a multi is for. A multi stores the entire configuration of the synth, including voice allocation, MIDI channels, and the programs used for each part. For what you want to do, you store the settings specific to a song in a multi, and you change multis.

> what is the sense of a patch in Ambika ? In which case it does make sense to use it ?

Let’s say you have a 3-part setup. You want to do something new with part 1, but you don’t want to touch part 2 and 3. Then you have to load a program. If, in addition, you want to be able to load only the sound-synthesis parameters while keeping the sequence and arpeggiator settings, you load a patch.

> In any other synth

I surveyed the terms used in the manuals of dozens of synths and it’s far, far from being the consensus you describe. If there was a terminology agreed upon I would have used it. But every manufacturer seems to have its own so I had to choose my words. Ambika is very specific in that there’s the concept of physical voice allocation that no other synth has (except maybe the Voyetra-8). I had to be careful not to call anything “voices” because it could be confused with physical voicecards.

Thanks again. I’m far away from critising your terminology or programming of Ambika. I’m pretty sure that is my mistake that i don’t get right. The Problem is, im completely lost !

Again:

  1. I switch on Ambika

2. I turn to S8 and choose Program A000 Junon. I like what i hear, but i want to tweak the sound.

What i don’t know in this situation, in which Multi am i ? Which voices are allocated ? Etc etc.

So,

3. i press exit, and go to S6. I see Part 1 with Voices 1, 3, 5 on Midi Ch 1 and see Part 2 with Voices 2, 4, 6 on Midi Ch 2. Ok. I want to play around with Part 1, nothing else, no seq no arp.

4. I tweak, i am happy, i go to S8 and save my new Part 1 on Program Slot C000 and call it HAPPYSOUND.

Now here lies my first problem. It’s only a what i call “Sound” with OSC 1+2, Filter Settings, LFO Envelopes etc. No Arp no Seq. Why can’t i save that as a patch ? I can’t find a “Save as Multi, Program, Patch” command anywhere. Why must i save that as a program ?

Anyway, i understood, with my program HAPPYSOUND no Voiceallocation, BPM or Midichannel Allocation is saved. I need to create a Multi. Ok. I don’t how, because im working on a program basis and there is no save as Multi comand or so, but let’s move on for now:

Now i want to make a song.

5. I externally sequence my HAPPYSOUND, but now i want a bassline, while Happysound is playing. Remember program C000 HAPPYSOUND i running. I really like the basssound program A009 VICdBass.

Here is my next problem: I want a new program C000 HAPPYSOUND, with Part 1 containing my first sound (the tweaked A000 JUNON) with Voices 1,3,5 Midichannel 1 and Part 2 i want import A009 VICdBass on Midichannel 2.

Step by Step, how can i achieve this ? I have no clue after reading the manual.

I assume, that all of this is somehow possible so here we would be:

Program C000 HAPPYSOUND is sequenced, Chords are playing on Midichannel 1, a super bassline is running on Midichannel 2. The voices are allocated, and after someone showed me how to create a new programm out of the fist 2 all is good. But now i want to play live. You said, therefore i have to create a multi. Simple question, when i switch on the Ambika and load a program, i play with the parts, allocate everything, please step by step, how do i save this program as a multi. Because when i am doing that here, i go to S8 and my only option is to save as program.

Sorry again for the long post, sorry for being a pain, i’m sure its my mistake.

> What i don’t know in this situation, in which Multi am i ? Which voices are allocated ? Etc etc.

You are not in a specific multi - you are just working with the settings that are loaded from scratch every time the synth starts.

> It’s only a what i call “Sound” with OSC 1+2, Filter Settings, LFO Envelopes etc. No Arp no Seq. Why can’t i save that as a patch ? I can’t find a “Save as Multi, Program, Patch” command anywhere. Why must i save that as a program ?

Of course you can! And that’s what you are missing… When you are on the load/save page, press the first switch to decide what you are going to save - patch, sequence, program or multi. So you press the first switch until it shows “multi”, and instead of saving just the “sound”, this will save EVERYTHING.

> I want a new program C000 HAPPYSOUND, with Part 1 containing my first sound (the tweaked A000 JUNON) with Voices 1,3,5 Midichannel 1 and Part 2 i want import A009 VICdBass on Midichannel 2.

You load your MULTI happysound. You edit the voice allocation parameters. You select part 2, you load the PROGRAM VICdBass.

And now you save this as a MULTI “happysong”.

> Because when i am doing that here, i go to S8 and my only option is to save as program.

It’s written in the manual:

“”"

Press S1 to repeatedly cycle through the different types of items that can be loaded/written from/to the memory card:

  • pt N patch will load/save all the sound synthesis settings, but not the sequencer/arpeggiator parameters of the Nth part.
  • pt N sequence will load/save all the sequencer/arpeggiator settings of the Nth part.
  • pt N program will load/save all the settings of the Nth part (synthesis, arpeggiator and sequencer).
  • multi will load/save all the settings of all parts.

“”"

Wow…finally. I got it Thanks very much, for your patience and help, much much appreciated !

Sorry again for being so slow and stupid, have a nice evening

Hi guys, just got my new ambika from TUBEOHM this week and am confused regarding saving and loading multi’s etc. have read the manual and the thread and still not quite clicked.

So , I turn on ambika, I load program Junon to part 1, set voicecard 1 and midi channel 1 and then tweak the sound to my liking.
I go to part 2, use a different program, set voice card 2, midi channel 2, tweak the sound etc.
Then I go to part 3, voice card 3, midi channel 3 etc etc

So I get something I like going. Am using auxy on ipad to sequence ambika.

I like the set up, press red button to save my multi. Press button 1 to choose multi from the list.
This is where I get stuck.
If I change the multi to an empty slot to save in, all my set up that has taken me a couple of hours disappears and is reverted to the set up in that multi slot.

Not sure what I am doing wrong, anyone give me some direction on this.

Thanks

Hi Adelock
I think you forget the step where you have to press S4 (save) after pressing S1 on the save/load page. Otherwise you are loading other presets which indeed makes you lose all settings you currently have.

Wow, that was quick ! Cheers shiftr. Knew it would be something simple. Did this multiple times this week and got very frustrated. I will try this tonight.

Thanks again

Yes, all sorted now, I get it, makes sense when you know what you are doing !

One possible solution:

Step 1. Make desired changes to any multi
Step 2. Click ‘Library (S8)’
Step 3. Select ‘multi’ by toggling S1
Step 4. Select ‘versions’ (S5)
Step 5. Select ‘copy’ (S1)
Step 6. Select ’exit’ (S8)
Step 7. Click ‘Library’ (S8)
Step 8. Select desired bank/number
Step 9. Select ‘versions’ (S5)
Step 10. Select ‘paste’ (S3)
Step 11. Click ‘Library’ (S8)
Step 12. Select ‘save’ (S4)
Step 13. Rename patch
Step 14. Select ‘save’ (S7)