Ok, if you do not know it, then probably nobody know it

Hmmm, looks like this digital communications textbook I didn’t sell will finally get some attention :slight_smile:

People do it the other way round (PC to Synth) with CV gear don’t they, use an audio out to drive synths.
In this case you would need to take the Midi In to the PC via an audio channel and then convert it to control signals for the DAW.
Edit- I’ve just noticed Pinchinettes is talking obout MIDI Out from the DAW, I think the main problem her eis MIDI IN, but yeah MIDI over audio channels would be great.

Perhaps a “Click” to MIDI Clock box would work. You could send it a click from your DAW and clock your drum machine, or send it a click from your drum machine and clock your DAW.

If it works in one directly, it can be made to work the other way round! Unless VSTi doesn’t allow a plug-in to take audio as input and produces MIDI events…

@Dunk: >Does this machine not allow external MIDI and internal Digital Audio clock?<
nice idea. But I find it difficult. How should it work? There will not be a conflict between the two clocks? Which clock should it listen? Could you define your idea?
>Perhaps a “Click” to MIDI Clock box would work.<
I am quite sure that this is what the Innerclock does. But I have to ask him (David) again if his products need the Ableton to be master, because from his emails I understood that.

@pichenettes: I will skip the complicated part of your message (its 99%) and just ask you if setting the audio interface to its higher possible sample rate (in my case 96 kHz sure, maybe 192 kHz too) would help increasing the midi clock accuracy or that would only influence the audio clock?
Well, the Innerclock and ACME things are sold for 700, 800 euro. If you can make a simpler and more effective one, cheaper, could be the boom.

@defenestration: I still do not understand this silent way. Does it work on any device or only on devices with a cv input like the old synths? Could you make an example of how this soft would help in my case, to sync an Octatrack with Ableton, having available only midi and trs jack audio in/out connections in the OT and in the interface?
You talk of transmission rate. The TM-1 increases the MIDI bandwidth up to 10 times. Would that help?

@rumpelfilter: >Is the OT running on it’s own or is it really getting triggered by Ableton?<
no, the OT would not be triggered by Ableton, it has got its own sequencer. Eventually I could do the opposite, trigger Ableton from the OT (infact, the OT has got 8 audio tracks and 8 midi tracks and can trigger in its sequencer any midi device). But I did not think till now about triggering in the OT sequencer the loops I made in Ableton. I was rather thinking to just having two separate loopers running parallelely, but synced.
What I would more probably trigger in the OT is a Soft Synth.
About the latencies, then I will experiment with Ableton to set them as low as possible.

Guys, what about this GM5? I would be extremelylylylylyly interested in a gm5x5x5. Especially because in my supreme sublime blessful ignorance I was sure that it was no problem to make a long midi chain.
I have a midi keyboard with which I want to control the pitch and effects on OT and Ableton, a midi pedal to start looping when I cannot use hands, a Novation zero to control the effects on OT (if I see that the keyboard is enough, this can go away), a bcr2000 to control shruthi and blofeld. Then the midipal. Ah, and I will have the midi theremin.
I thought this was normal.
Damn.
If I cannot make it work I will really have to change completely plans…
Mumble…

> case 96 kHz sure, maybe 192 kHz too) would help increasing the midi clock accuracy or that would only influence the audio clock?

Won’t change anything MIDI-clock wise.

@pichenettes
I see a EuroRackable MIDI/CV Interface that is in sync with your DAW Audio…

Hi, I may have misunderstood, but an example would be that on a synth you can have the digital audio coming out and clocked to your soundcard but have the MIDI clock coming in controlling the Arpegiator. That is what I mean by having both clocks separate.

This may not be relevant at all in this case!

I’ve had a quick look at the Octatrack Manual, what happens if you select the following in the Sync menu.

TRANSPORT SEND (This will stop and start Ableton from the OT Start/Stop)

CLOCK RECEIVE will when active make the Octatrack respond to MIDI clock sent
from external devices. (So should sync with Ableton)

Have you tried this and it did not work well?

@Dunk: I did not try anything, the OT is a beast, I read the manual every day in the bus and I still am at 2/3 of it. The swedish english (no offense) does not help :slight_smile:
The problem is, OT must be Master. No other option.
Anyway I suppose that if till now no other solution came out, then there is no other solution.
I will just do all what I can without spending money, with what I have. And if it not enough, I will consider other options.

Well, what can I say more. Thanks for the ideas. If it happens to some of you to find out more, please share.
I will post the results of my experiments (which will be not before a few months).

Well if it’s any consolation I have spent the best part of 15 years moving trying to use hardware and software together. I’m using an MPC now which makes life so much easier as I don’t have to turn the PC on to make music. The OT has a sequencer so hopefully if you learn how to use that things may get easier.
I am finding similar things with the MPC, it has so many functions, from sequencer, drum machine, to hard disk recorder that it is hard to know where to start!

http://www.expert-sleepers.co.uk/silentway.html covers the DAW > outboard sync thing for synths. the same approach for midi devices sounds pretty cool though…

Yes, you would need something a bit like this but generating clock, this is what i was getting at with the Click to MIDI clock box:

I do not know much about the MPC.
What can an MPC do? And why in my case, for what I want to achieve, should I be interested in using MPC and OT together?
Is it a sequencer? A sampler? A real time looper?
I do not need another sequencer, the OT is enough for me as sampler/sequencer in this moment.
I just wanted two loopers, and, especially, I liked very much the possibility of recalling 64 ableton loops with a launchpad.
I hate overdubbing, I prefer to have as much as possible all separate, and start overdubbing as late as I can.
If the MPC can sample in real time and loop in real time (as any classic looper, press a button and start recording, press again and stop recording and at same time, no dead times, start playing the loop), and can assign a different loop to each one of its pads, I may be interested.
Anyway it is a labirynth with all those models :slight_smile:

Hi, I did not mean to give you any ideas about buying new gear, I would stick with what you have for now!
The MPC stands for Midi Production Centre, the first one was developed by Roger Linn and was intended as a sampling drum machine. I don’t think you can use it live to record sequences into though. You have to record the samples first before you jam.
I am intending to use it as a drum machine, and a sequencer. It has a good mode where each of the pads can mute a sequence or sound so you can have (on an MPC1000) 16 pads (in 4 banks so 64) turning on and off loops of either samples, drum tracks or extrenal MIDI tracks. You can mute and unmute tracks to build a song live. While your song is playing you can also switch to a mode where you can just play samples, say vocals or drum hits over the top using the pads. One of the biggest reasons for getting this is that I love deep House music where the swing is very important, and this machine allows unquantized recording of drums.
Its using this that made me decide on the Shruthi as I can record loops or hits into the sampler so I don’t need polyphony just one good small synth.

I think the only problem is that so many features have been added over the years that these machines have become harder to use. Many people actually prefer the very early MPC machines to the new ones due to their simplicity.

I just found this whilst looking for a MPC demo which is an example of a plugin in Live driving click + MIDI. Looks like it’s an external box?

Not only you, also Alluminium Frank, and Defenestration :slight_smile:
So I started to think that maybe I was ignoring something about the MPC.
I mean, if the MPC was able to sample/loop real time, and to assign a different loop to each pad, then it is for me enough. ANd I can consider the possibility to buy a used MPC instead of a Innerclock (sorry David). And use Ableton to make music at home or to DJ or sell it.
But if it cannot loop, I have nothing to want from it now.

The video is made by Innerclock :slight_smile:
I wrote him.
I wait to hear from him more about if his products need Ableton as Master or not.

using an ESX-8GT expander with the ES-5 or ES-4 and 1/8" to MIDI adapter cables you can already get sample accurate MIDI clock out of your DAW using Silent Way. You can also get sample accurate MIDI itself out of your DAW - this is how I control every MIDI synth in my setup.

with a controller that outputs CVs and using SIlent Way’s CV-to-MIDI plugin and a DC coupled interface you can already get sample accurate MIDI into your DAW using Silent Way - the ES-2 module is designed to be used with AC-coupled soundcards in order to more easily enable this type of CV input functionality.

Expert Sleepers/Silent Way solutions generally makes existing MIDI-CV solutions wildly obsolete, as long as you are willing to be tied to your computer

If I was using an octatrack, I would do the same thing with it that I do with all my MIDI gear - it receives latency compensated sample accurate MIDI clock from ableton via the following signal chain

DAW track with SIlentway plugin outputs to > S/PDIF soundcard output which has a s/pdif cable connected to the ES-4 which has expander ports > that connect to an ESX-8GT > which has 1/8" to MIDI cables connected to it > which connect to the MIDI input of the MIDI device

an ES-4 is like $295 and an ESX-8GT is like $100, and on top of that you have to stick them in a modular rack to power them - if you don’t also have CV enabled synths you intend to use with Silent Way the Expert Sleepers solution is overkill. I already had a couple CV enabled synths when I got my ES-4, so it wasn’t such a stretch for me - sequencing them with sample accurate CV is WONDERFUL.

I think the Expert Sleepers guy has a bit of a market available to him if he would make a dedicated standalone box (like pichenettes is talking about) to implement the sample-accurate MIDI side of the Silentway/Expert Sleepers solution. I see lots of forum posts where people are confused about how the MIDI side of it works (especially since you end up sending a MIDI signal out of an 1/8" jack, a lot of people have a problem wrapping their head around that), which makes perfect sense as the Expert Sleepers guy just added all this MIDI stuff as a bonus feature for his users to be able to sync up like drum machines to your modular

Innerclock I believe is designed to be used with or without your DAW but I really don’t know much about their solutions but they seem rock solid and very straightforward.

Digital Communications huh…I have this book on digital communications from Radio Shack, lots of chapters, quizzes, and circuits. Interesting concept here. As Always™

Its funny that you wrote to the guy who made that video, I think this is so specialised that there are just not many people doing it.

why don’t you do all the live looping in ableton? it’s great for that… i use it a lot sometimes with 16 independent loop recorders. It’s great having separate effects and filters on all the loopers…