# Is it possible to get NAND from Kinks + Links?

Hi,
I try to figure out how to get a NAND from Kinks + Links… is it possible? Could you help me?

Thanks a lot!

I don’t think so.

I think you need a trigger inverter such as the doepfer a-165

AND is gate low (ie:off) unless both inputs high.

AND through an inverter = NAND which will create gate high (ie:on) unless both inputs are high, which then will cause output to go low.

The doepfer a-165 manual has some good visual descriptions about how it works:

http://www.doepfer.de/a100_man/A165_man.pdf

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Sorry for the noob question, but I’m just wondering why doesn’t work with kinks inverter.

the problem is that a trigger is either 0 volts when off or a positive amount when on (lets say +5 volts)

if you invert, the off stays the same because the inversion of 0 volts is still 0 volts… BUT the inversion of +5 volts is -5 volts.

As far as I know modules are always looking for a trigger with steep positive voltage… so the module won’t be triggered with a negative trigger.

In theory you could use the kinks inverter with another module which can provide positive offset (such as MI shades or blinds) equal to the voltage of the trigger… but this ends up being complicated and uses a lot of modules and patch cables.

A trigger inverter, to the best of my knowledge, is a logic module utilising comparators, and not just an polarity inversion function.

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Thank you very much for explaining.

I’ve just tried offset de inverted trigger with my veils (the new one with positive offset) and anyway it didn’t work as I expected.

I know it’s a little complicated, but I’ve just tried to get this NAND with my modules. Maybe I need to try a different view of my patch.

You can make a logical inverter out of an analog inverter (negater) by adding a positive offset (at least as high as the input signal’s high value). That is, Kinks’ inverter section turns 0V into 0V and +5V into -5V, but the logical negation is 0V into 5V and 5V into 0V, which is the same thing but with an offset.

All logic “not” variations (NOT, NAND, NOR, …) can’t be made without some source of “high” to produce the proper output when all inputs are “low”.

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As explained by many other people, you need to offset the inverted signal.

You cannot offset a signal with Veils, only the CV controlling the gain of the signal! But Shades or Blinds can be used for this task.

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Oh! Thanks, I get it.
Definitely I need to check my patch and remake from another point of view, because I haven’t got this outils modules to offset inverted signal . I guess that is another module to thinking about in my future planning .

It is remarkable how many times an offset module (preferably one which can mix as well) gets used.

There are hundreds of modules out there. Mutable makes Shades and Blinds which are my favourite because they both have LED metering which really helps to give a visual indication of what is happening. These modules also have a lot of other uses.

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Befaco A*B+C can provide this offset task among a bunch of other functionalities.