Editor/librarian for OS X?

@fcd72 Even though I agree with your take on OSS in general, I don’t think the Shruthi being Open Source has anything to do with anyone’s ability to write an editor for it; I have yet to come across a MIDI synth without all the needed information printed in the back of its manual.

@fcd72 And I agree on the market not being large enough; there’s a reason all the existing general librarian/editor packages aren’t being kept up-to-date anymore even though these vendors have a huge library of templates that don’t need any work.

The thing with midi editors is that they are more of a luxury than a necessity. They are necessary when there would be no other way to edit the synthesizer from the front panel - like the Alesis nano series, but there are very few synthesizers with that issue. For backing up patches, I would recommend Elektron C6 as it works for both Mac and Windows as well as being supported by a synth company that won’t be disappearing anytime soon. Once you know how many bytes are in a patch, it is very easy to keep track of whether or not the file got corrupted once it was sent.

As far as using midi editors to program patches. It is pretty nifty for DAW integration assuming that the editor runs as a VST/AU plugin. If you want to do an automated filter sweep on a synthesizer with an archaic midi implementation, it is great to have someone else do the foot work for you.

@herrprof: You might want to check out AudioTerm for making custom wavetables. It took me a while to figure out how to properly import and export the files without a manual, but it works great. Now I just need to get the files to export as a 16 slice wavetable with 128 samples per slice. Then it still needs to be converted from 16 bit to 8 bit file format. Of course, these tables will work great with a sampler even if they don’t work on the Shruthi.

@thijs: I have a parameter card printed out for each of my synthesizers that has one. It isn’t too bad to remember what parameter numbers are necessary. There are usually less than 60. On the MKS50… yeah, they kind of messed up with the parameter toggle switch. Of course, this advice is coming from a guy who was programming C64 sounds from the command line last night.

Didn’t someone already make a cross-platform editor that runs in reaktor?

https://co.native-instruments.com/index.php?id=userlibrary&type=0&ulbr=1&plview=detail&patchid=13163

There seems to be an unstated assumption that Mutable Instruments would need to develop a Shruthi editor/librarian from scratch in order to offer one to their users. That is not the case. There are a number of software developers who could likely be enticed to develop a cross-platform editor/librarian with a combination of money and gear (perhaps a Shruthi or Ambika to sweeten the deal).

Here are some developers that currently have editor/librarian “platforms” (including the e-commerce infrastructure to take orders):

Rekon Audio
SoundTower
Midi Quest

Given that these developers already have the underlying codebase to support sending/receiving/managing patches (and the technology to run their editors as plugins in most major DAWs,) the effort to develop a GUI probably wouldn’t be that great - particular if an ambitious member of this forum created the graphics himself/herself (perhaps basing the design on one of the existing third-party editors for the Shruthi).

If 2,500 Shruthis have actually been sold (as someone stated in this thread) and we assume that perhaps 5% of users would purchase the editor for $49, that’s $6,125 in revenue. Let’s say that Mutable Instruments offers the editor/librarian developer $5,000 plus a Shruthi to do the work (in addition to the revenue from sales of the editor) then the developer would stand to make about $11,500.

Assuming the work could be done in a week (again, given that the underlying code/platform is already in place,) that’s not a bad return on the developer’s investment.

It’s just up to Mutable Instruments to take the initiative to feel out these developers to see whether they are interested and whether the estimated ROI is realistic and attractive to them.

Sure, that’s $5,000 out of Mutable’s pocket (plus the time to coordinate with these developers - assuming they are even interested). But I would argue that the goodwill this would engender among Shruthi users would be worth the small investment.

P.S. I would be more than willing to help coordinate this project for Mutable Instruments for free since this is what I do in my day job as a software Product Manager. However, I obviously can’t initiate these conversations with the editor/librarian developers without Mutable Instruments’ blessing.

I don’t think there is any way Olivier could create even more goodwill among his clients… He obviously giving everything he’s got for his products.

> I don’t think there is any way Olivier could create even more goodwill among his clients… He obviously giving everything he’s got for his products.

I did not mean to imply that Oliver is not doing enough for his customers by not offering an editor. I realize this is a labor of love. :slight_smile:

The Shruthi does not need an editor. It is one of the easiest and most flexible synthesizers to program. The software editors that most people make aren’t. Saying that it would take a week to create, even given the great codebase, is like McDonalds saying that you will pay 0$ for heating in a given month. This is not even considering the nightmare of cross-platform compatibility.

I understand the usefulness of editors for other synthesizers, but this is one case where it is just not necessary. With a quick read through of the manual - and a previous understanding of MIDI messages (CC, NRPN, Sysex, ect.) - it is possible to automate parameters from a DAW or easily back up patches. The only issue I have is trying to figure out what audio suite is best for making custom wavetables that are compatible with the Shruthi format, and that is not covered in the manual. It should be.

Five-grand is just too much to invest in a piece of software. I’d rather see that money go into the development of more Eurorack modules or even the next evolution of the Shruthi. Maybe I just like hardware.

> The Shruthi does not need an editor.

When you make statements like this, it’s usually a good idea to start with “In my opinion…” Otherwise you come off as a patronizing.

While some people may not need an editor to use Shruthi productively, there are some of us who make extensive use of the Mod Matrix and it gets a little tedious dialing through all the source/destination routing options on the unit itself. Drop down menus in an editor would be far easier to use. (If someone is just twiddling the cutoff knob, then this obviously doesn’t apply.)

> Saying that it would take a week to create, even given the great codebase, is like McDonalds saying that you will play 0$ for heating in a given month

You lost me on the analogy. If I’m understanding you correctly, the point is that $5,000 wouldn’t cover all the “plumbing” that would be required to support a cross-platform editor/librarian. But that is MY whole point! If you start with an existing “platform” (from Rekon, SoundTower, or Sound Quest,) all of this work has already been done. What’s left is to design a GUI and “wire it up” to the appropriate CC values. I know from first hand experience that this isn’t that hard (although it is hardly trivial).

At the end of the day, even if you don’t think you need an editor, I can’t imagine anyone who programs any of their own sounds not wanting a computer-based librarian to organize those sounds into useful categories. Plus, auditioning patches from a librarian is far easier than scrolling through hundreds of patches on the device itself.

The nice thing about the editor/librarians from Rekon, SoundTower, and Sound Quest is that they have reasonably powerful librarian capabilities. None of the home-brew Shruthi editors that I have seen offer this feature.

@GadgetFiend

Again - and i dont want to be boring - this is a place for people that get up and do something themselves to fulfill their needs and desires. This is - as far as i can tell from the little experience i have gotten here - not so much a place for people that try to make others spend money, time, effort and passion to fulfill their mostly personal needs.

This place is a huge, passionate, talented and skilled community and the reason why theres no MultiPlatform Editor/Librarian is simply explained analog to the Anthropic Principle

If you cant use your Shruthi productively without attaching it to a huge piece of Software, maybe you try some Plugin of which most have a built in librarian. If you choose a VST its also Multiplatform and frees you from this nasty Hardware. Believe it or not - and im now stretching your imagination as far as i can, but i assume you are open minded and not patronizing - rumors are there are people who insist on not using a standard PC when programming Synths and making music. Im one of them but i am not average as i find people that dont measure themselves and others by the same values are somewhat contradictionary.

Personally i have 75m of garden fence to build and i think it would totally add to GadgetFiends credibility - and give him piece of mind - if he grabs a flight this weekend and assembles the whole mess for me, after all this is a “small investment” from his pocket and would engender goodwill over here.
As this is about the same ridiculosity level as his proposal for this Editor, i have a good chance my wife will stop bothering me with that damn fence.

@fcd72

You do realize that analogies should actually compare two related things - and not just serve to express your smug, passive aggressive hostility, right?

Go troll somewhere else and then come back when your arguments make a modicum sense. Perhaps we can then discuss this issue like adults.

GadgetFiend: I think fcd72’s point is that there is a great overlap between the community of people who enjoy building DIY synths, and the community of people who like to take computers entirely out of their workflow.

Among Rekon, SoundTower and MIDIQuests, which ones are user-programmable and how much would it cost in licensing to resell an editor based on these products (or is it right to assume that the customer would need to purchase first one of these programs?).

@GadgetField
So ill have to build that fence alone?

Sorry for not getting into my analogies, thanks for your worthy suggestions; without any offense meant, without the usual sarcastic humor thats somehow inherent to the ShruthiVersum™, speaking like an adult and to don’t use analogies nobody understands:

You want to teach people to explicitly mark their statements as personal opinion or else the come off “patronizing” in your eyes, whereas yourself state your opinion with “i cant imagine anyone … not wanting a computer based Librarian” which in my humble opinion is as patronizing as anything can be. And without meaning to insult; your reaction shows that i hit the point.

Rekon and SoundTower both sell instrument-specific editors that work as VST or AU plugins. These are explicitly not librarian/editor packages in the traditional sense as I referred to above. They don’t offer software you can use to build your own thing.

MIDIQuest and Unisyn are packages that come with a huge number of “templates” for existing instruments and allow you to create your own. These packages are pretty good, but they don’t seem to be actively maintained in terms of OS support and modern look & feel.

There are already editors, both as panels for CTRLR, and from fx. tubeohm, if none of those satisfy your needs, then there are more than enough resources to build your own editor, for fx. CTRLR, building upon the old panel…

@fcd72… How many pair of shoes equals 75m fence?

@shiftr
I guess shoes and fence is somehow incompatible…

Well I dont like using computers in my music making, but I do enjoy using computers to archive and develop sound libraries and such. I never much agreed with the mentality “I dont need it, so no one needs it”.

What I don’t really enjoy is futzing and learning a new (maybe buggy) editor and instead rather do like encouraging people who get off on doing those type of things with helpful feedback and when necessary money. I only have a few hours a day to make music, so I like to do that, instead of the DIY open source slough everyday all the time.

@pichenettes: Yes, the MI customer would need buy Midi Quest or Unisyn in order to run a custom template. Really, any outsourcing like this would require the MI user to spend money that most of which would not go towards MI or the community. I am not a fan of that.

herrprof:thijs: I use computers for recording and storing purposes as well. I have used some editors that were useful, but they tend to come from a community gathered around a synthesizer - so they only edit that one synth. Most of these “universal” librarians are falling into disrepair because they were buggy and cost too much to begin with. One of the better hardware editors is the BCR2000 because of the “learn” function. Very easy to use and backup the patches over USB too. This assumes that you can edit all of the functions from the face-plate to begin with though.

@GadgetFiend: Give one of my patches I posted in the Patch Sharing Thread a go. I use the mod-matrix plenty. I usually use the rotary encoder to easily cycle through the settings. It is also possible to route the matrix via a DAW that can translate NRPN equations like this one 32 + 3 * (n – 1). Those are the values for Modulation Source where “n” is the value of the virtual knob/slider in your DAW. The trick with this is having the right minimum and maximum value because it is not 0 to 127 as with CC’s.
Also, my analogy was more about mismanagement. :wink:

@fcd72: Just make the top wire a 75m spring. Then you will have a 75m springverb. :o That would be pretty awesome.

Anyone any experience with this ?