Blinds or Veils

Trying to free up Frames from mixing duties so here’s a sort of a late in the process rate my rack thread. I own about half these modules atm.

Shades has been in and out of the perpetual modulargridding. Now with Blinds I was just at the post office with my DPLPG to make room for the 2HP needed.

The competition here is the 802 (boxing announcer voice: “in reeeed, coming from Lisbon, Portugaaal”). Financially I’m not sure if the 802 is unobtainium to me but it has some things going on which ofc are quite appealing, including reported sound character (not pictured). I’m beginning to like the idea of some actual spaced panels, a huge plus to MI design imo.

So the question is - based on some of the decisions here - do I go for Blinds or Veils - I’m really thinking Blinds.
Or both, and rid the notion of the 802?

Bonus: I just threw Bastls Tromsø out to add more mixing. No sample & hold currently which I believe is bad for the longterm.

At first glance, Blinds always seems like the better choice, but if you just want 4 traditional VCAs, Veils is the better choice. This is because Veils can have the VCA response curve swept from 100% exponential to 100% linear. Having control over that curve is very powerful since this also changes how your sound will sustain. An exponential curve will sound more natural and drum like, but a linear slope can add extra sustain on the release or decay portion of your sound. Being able to smoothly sweep this curve as on Veils gives you variable sustain time. If you need to invert this output, just get something like Shades. Ultimately, Veils + Shades give you a lot of options while taking up less room and costing less than Veils + Blinds.

While I’m talking about ways to save space, why not use your Expert Sleepers module to run my Reaktor bock Mathematical then just sell your Maths? It’s not a clone, it’s not hardware, but it’s better. :wink:

I guess no point in trying to get around that logic. Veils makes more sense. I think with the sliding nuts of my Goike top 104hp row, it may be abused to accompdate Shades in lieu of Mix B actually. Those Batl modules leave some space when mounted on fixed strips at least so sliding them close may work :slight_smile: Maths is not leaving anytime soon doe… ^^ but YES I so want try a full Blocks version out. Didn’t know you’d written Mathematical! was just chatting about it today with a friend at work. I had an es-3 before and I’m a little invested in CV Toolkit but we’ll see.

Blinds may have some weird tricks up its sleeve that I don’t know about. However, if it is just 4 attenuverters, I would pick Veils+Shades. The only down side is that you can only have a maximum of three attenuverted channels.

I’ve made the whole Nouveau Collection over at the User Library. As soon as I made a complex function generator, everyone wanted to do Maths like things with it. Mathematical is my answer to that. I will reiterate that it is not an exact clone, but I did try to make it much more useful. Maths can’t be a V/Oct wavetable oscillator, and Rampage can’t run an audio rate slew signal into a wavetable shaper. It can take you into truly chaotic modulation territories. I am also working on an update that will add around 10 more blocks to my collection.

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I am doubting which one to pick as well. Blinds seems like the better choice when using it with modulation sources.

blinds is fantastic for intermingling multiple bipolar modulation sources (like, 2 or 3 phase-locked tides, for instance), and it’s also cool for ring-modulating audio signals. (no, it is not ‘just 4 attenuverters’! it’s 4 vc polarizers/ring modulators - which is insanely cool)

veils is excellent for more classical vca tasks - i.e. vc-attenuating stuff…

@mic.w: When a knob on Blinds is set at noon with no CV input, is the output of the module 0?

Can’t you get ring modulation from a traditional VCA by shifting a bipolar signal to a unipolar signal? Of course a DC offset adder is needed, but Frames can do that I believe.

yes, blinds’ vcas do close completely (i.e. output = 0v) with the big knob precisely at 12 o’clock and a cv input of 0v (or the little attenuverter also precisely at 12 o’ clock), so in theory at least, it might also be used as a traditional vca, but it’s a bit fiddly to find the right spot. i think this module is really all about vc polarization, i wouldn’t really recommend it as a traditional vca (vc attenuator), even though you might be able to use it that way if needs be…

That is my opinion on the matter as well. I just think that the variable curve on Veils is more powerful for sound sculpting in the long run.

> Can’t you get ring modulation from a traditional VCA by shifting a bipolar signal to a unipolar signal?

No:

a * b is not the same thing as a * (b + 1) = a * b + a

What you suggest would create “carrier bleed-through” - the equivalent of mixing the ring-modulator output with the original signal.

@audioharder: veils is great for positive amplitude sculpting.
blinds is great for bipolar amplitude sculpting.
both are great at what they do.

@pichenettes: I didn’t think about that; it is very hard to argue against math, haha.

@mic.w: Yes, picking just one is not an easy task. It really does come down to a per system basis.

Get both Blinds and Veils, no 802? (Roughly same money)

Blinds + batumi also seems like it would be way cool.

I’ve been using Blinds mainly as an audio VCA. I love the weird effects you can get this way. You can also get ‘delayed’ envelops by pushing parts of the CV in to the negative while feeding the output to a positive expecting module.

Blinds is superb and I love it. While it’s a fairly simple ‘oh some VCA/multipliers’ concept it’s got all the same beautiful design and workflow that we all know to expect from Olivier’s excellent work.

Absolutely wonderful to get useable, tuneable CVs into quantizers and for those weird pesky module inputs like the STO’s ripple that turns into an attenuator and expects a positive 0-5v.

Also works beautifully as a set of cascading audio VCAs, a total work of art, buy several.

So can Blinds act as a straight VCA ?

Yes, if your CV is unipolar and if you set the middle knobs to 12 o’clock.

Thanks mate.Ive decided to get Veils .,just ordered from Patchcable

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blinds is truly fantastic both for eg/lfo/sequencer/etc cv modulations and for audio rate ring modulation, but imo it’s not ideal for use as a traditional audio vca (at least not in live situations), because finding the neutral position of the big knobs (vca completely closed) can be a tad fiddly, when you’re in a hurry.
so for anyone with enough room in their rack, i would always recommend getting both blinds and veils. :slight_smile: